Storytellers Vault
Narrow Results
$ to $















Back
pixel_trans.gif
The Sword of Caine: A V5 Guide to the Sabbat $14.00
Average Rating:4.7 / 5
Ratings Reviews Total
8 5
1 2
1 0
0 0
0 0
The Sword of Caine: A V5 Guide to the Sabbat
Click to view
You must be logged in to rate this
pixel_trans.gif
The Sword of Caine: A V5 Guide to the Sabbat
Publisher: White Wolf
by Virginia B. [Verified Purchaser]
Date Added: 05/20/2022 09:03:09

This book is an incredibly interesting read -- I definitely enjoyed it! It provides a lot of information about how the Sabbat could continue to function as a sect in modern nights, rather than being fractured into pieces the way it is in the officially published materials.

That said, there are some things that are less good.

  1. The Table of Contents is very sparse, and the index isn't all that much better.
  2. There aren't many details on how to create a Sabbat Pack -- are we meant to use the Coterie Types from the official material? Beyond the fact that the pack needs a Priest, a Ductus, and an Abbot, and the duties of those roles, we really don't have much to work with.
  3. The Predator Types are... underwhelming, at best. Ravager is hardly different from Alleycat and Pack Feeder is essentially a reskin of Blood Leech. Soriety Sister is an interesting one, but it doesn't have much to do with the Sabbat in particular, and thus, to me, seems a bit out of place in this book.
  4. This one I will fully admit is rather nitpicky of me, and if it was my only issue I would have given this 5/5 stars, but the conventions of what are considered proper nouns vs. what are not does not match up with official content. (For instance, in the official content, Kindred and Cainite are always capitalized; the same cannot be said here.)

I would still definitely recommend checking this out if you want to run a V5 Sabbat chronicle, just be aware that there are some gaps that you may have to fill in on your own or by using other sources, especially for the actual mechanics of play.



Rating:
[4 of 5 Stars!]
pixel_trans.gif
Creator Reply:
Thank you for your feedback. You bring up some very valid criticisms and we will certainly take them to heart for future updates and projects. Thank you for your words!
pixel_trans.gif
The Sword of Caine: A V5 Guide to the Sabbat
Publisher: White Wolf
by Seitu P. [Verified Purchaser]
Date Added: 12/06/2021 11:45:54

Belated update: This product has been updated since I wrote this review and my criticisms/gripes about Discipline and Paths of Enlightenment mechanics have by and large been addressed at this point.

I'm actually more split on my impression of this book's quality that the relatively high 4/5 I gave it may suggest.

I like the updated history of the Sabbat that the book provides and the alternate take on the sect's changes/growth up to and around the time of the events of V5. Working the Sikorsky/Galbraith affair into the sect's most recent turning point was a nice touch, and the look at the sect in the fray of the Gehenaa as well as how it can feed back into activities outside that arena is rich with possibilities.

In regards to some of the mechanics that are introduced, I'm less impressed. The return to clan-specific disciplines for the Tzimisce and the Saalubri Antitribu seems notably misplaced in the current edition, especially given the use of an Attribute + Skill framework for power dice pools that is absent from every other discipline in the game (it's obviously not a hard fix, if one considers it a problem, but it does make me wonder how much thought went into them to begin with). The Sabbat predator types in the book come off as low-effort paint jobs for existing predator types from core, with the exception of Sorority Sister, which I find to be different enough in its approach to hunting from the Scene Queen, despite their similarities, to bring something a bit distinct to the table.

Most egregious in my opinion are the gaps and ambiguities in the Path of Enlightenment system that the book offers. The preceding section on Sabbat in V5 regarding tenets obviously seeks to address the matter of stains in Sabbat Chronicles and when/if they should come into play, though its statements about automatic stains is curiously focused on murder and torture, which may or may not actually be stains depending on chronicle tenets; as far as actual automatic stains go, the list largely consists of using blood bonds, embracing mortals, varying degrees of harm to Touchstones, stain accrual that's baked into the use of Oblivion in general and the use of specific discipline powers. The general advice to use such stains 'sparingly' technically applies to these default stain triggers, though given the focus on things that aren't actually automatic stains it isn't clear to me that they're what the author had in mind. Even then, however, the book offers no real insight as to which of these sorts of automatic stains or more or less appropriate for Sabbat chronicles, and even accounting for possible outliers that aren't included in the list I provided above, it wouldn't have taken more than a paragraph or two to adequately address this for the majority of cases that turn up in the V5 books thus far. The matter of automatic Humanity loss from diablerie isn't addressed at all, though I think fair reading of the rules presented is that Sabbat who have yet to transition to a Path of Enlightenment remain subject to it while those who are on Paths do not (though it may conflict with the Ethics of their Paths and thereby still merit stains depending on the circumstances). Insofar as automatic stains do apply, the rules for Ethics associated with Paths as replacements for Convictions ironically render them worse at protecting against such stains than Convictions from Humanity since in contrast to the lost Convictions, the Ethics only reduce the total number of stain incurred by one at the end of a session rather than mitigating stains per action. This leads to the almost comical scenario where in order to maintain one's Path rating, the character must succeed on a Remorse roll to feel bad about taking actions that may well be explicitly endorsed, or even celebrated, by the Path they have committed themselves to. Moreover, it's not even clear how many of the Ethics apply to individual characters, which is important not only for their role in stain mitigation, such as it is, but also as a source for stains when characters act against the values that they espouse (and on that note, it isn't really clear what "violation of ethic conviction" is supposed mean on the Violation/Stains table given that the Ethics replace Convictions to begin with). We know that at least one of the Ethics will apply to characters, since that's covered under conversion, but beyond that it isn't clear when or how characters choose additional Path Ethics and it isn't even stated that characters starting on Paths, and thus having Path ratings of 6 from the get-go) choose more Path Ethics than those who are freshly converted.

Hell, as far as conversion goes, it doesn't even provide any information on how a character would go about increasing their Path rating at all; possibilities such as basing the experience cost on the costs for increasing Humanity in core (though that'd obviously be problematic with default experience reward suggestions unless the goal is to spend most of the Chronicle as a near-wight or likely Wassail well before it ends), using the rules for Projects, or simply roleplaying Path advancement come to mind, but even that sort of preliminary spitballing/handwaving demonstrates more thought on this subject than anything that actually made it into the book. I consider this a serious shortcoming given how important the Paths are to the identity of the sect, especially considering how much the author seems to think the book is worth.

To wrap this all up, as far as narrative and thematic elements of the book are concerned, I'd rate the book as a 4 or a 5 out of 5. Mechanics-wise, it slips up enough that I'd rate as a 3 out of 5 (if looking at the rules for Paths alone I'd bring it down to a 2 out of 5). Given that this review is for other people, I settled for an overall score of 4 with the expectation that others may not share my issues with the mechanics, or at least not be as disappointed with them as I am.



Rating:
[4 of 5 Stars!]
pixel_trans.gif
Creator Reply:
Solid feedback and opinions. You've definitely given a well-spoken critique that I will certainly take to heart when going through for an update. I sincerely appreciate the candid view and will try to use it to make the product better in future updates. Thank you very much for your thoughts!
pixel_trans.gif
The Sword of Caine: A V5 Guide to the Sabbat
Publisher: White Wolf
by Ismael A. [Verified Purchaser]
Date Added: 10/23/2021 10:17:56

In my honest opinion, the book is way more useful for players and STs than the official Sabbat book. The lore is very interesting, especially for some clans such as the Salubri antitribu. The best part concerns the path systems to replace humanity on V5. Brilliant. The art is also very beautiful. As an ST, using this, alongside the official V5 Sabbat book, will be a must for Sabbat chronicles, since it fills all the gaps that the main book doesn't. 5 out of 5, praise Caine for this one!



Rating:
[5 of 5 Stars!]
pixel_trans.gif
The Sword of Caine: A V5 Guide to the Sabbat
Publisher: White Wolf
by Mark Q. [Verified Purchaser]
Date Added: 10/19/2021 10:10:06

This was much needed for playable Sabbat in V5

There was a lot that went into the Sword of Caine, and it serves as an invaluable resource for those players who want to actually PLAY Sabbat in their V5 game. Not to mention that the book is BEAUTIFULLY designed. It has everything players and STs need to jump into a Sabbat game, and even includes loresheets.



Rating:
[5 of 5 Stars!]
pixel_trans.gif
The Sword of Caine: A V5 Guide to the Sabbat
Publisher: White Wolf
by Zachery N. [Verified Purchaser]
Date Added: 10/17/2021 21:25:09

The Sword of Caine: A V5 Guide to the Sabbat is not the Sabbat found in the Sabbat: The Black Hand that I can't link to becuase it's not available on Storyteller's Vault at this time. This book updates and progresses the Sabbat through the metaplot while holding the sect mostly in tact and providing options for PC. There isn't the whole scale decimation of the sect's organizational structure. This is a sect that has adapted to the events of the metaplot but still manage to funtion. If you've seen a V5 actual play of the Sabbat on Twitch or on YouTube, it's probably closer to how the sect is presnted in this corebook. Given the player focus of this book, it delves into both the lore of the sect and how modern nights have shaped it into what it is tonight. This is not a reboot of prior editions, but an advancement. Disciplines, Loresheets, a guide to replacing Humanity with a Path of Enlightenment, everything you need to make the Sabbat playable is in this book. If you want to to run a V5 game with Sabbat characters, this is the supplement to do it.



Rating:
[5 of 5 Stars!]
pixel_trans.gif
The Sword of Caine: A V5 Guide to the Sabbat
Publisher: White Wolf
by Kat S. [Verified Purchaser]
Date Added: 10/17/2021 18:25:24

There is a lot of great information in here on how to make V5 Sabbat PC playable.



Rating:
[5 of 5 Stars!]
pixel_trans.gif
The Sword of Caine: A V5 Guide to the Sabbat
Publisher: White Wolf
by AL L. [Verified Purchaser]
Date Added: 10/17/2021 17:47:41

A quite complete guide to playing in the Sabbat for v5 with gorgeous artwork. We can see the love the author had for it. Totally a 5 stars product!

My only recommandation to improve: maybe in a appendix, alternate versions Valeren & Vicissitude powers for Storyteller who wants to keep things compatible with the V5 Companion.



Rating:
[5 of 5 Stars!]
pixel_trans.gif
Creator Reply:
That's a great recommendation! I'll definitely put it down as something to look into for future updates. Thank you for the feedback!
pixel_trans.gif
Displaying 1 to 7 (of 7 reviews) Result Pages:  1 
pixel_trans.gif
pixel_trans.gif Back pixel_trans.gif
0 items